The industry seem to have turned their attention to TopSeos - “identified as an independent authority on vendors” (by themselves apparently) and it makes for a good read.
It seems the legitimate SEO community, for the most part, finds what TOPSEOs does to be distasteful at best, a shakedown service at worst. Alan Bleiweiss
Apparently this organisation produce rankings and award badges for best seo companies in various countries (including the UK) … except folk are of the opinion you might have to pay TOPSEOS.com thousands of pounds to be considered for these industry awards.
UPDATE – I asked for Hobo to be removed from the directory, and asked the “best uk seo company in the UK” (according to themselves) to stop bidding on our brand name with this nonsense. Generally speaking, I’m happy with that, now, both have complied with our requests.
As of 2010-03-31, there are 3,247 search engine optimization companies listed. Of those 3,247 SEO companies, 170 are listed in the Best Search Engine Optimization Companies category. @pageoneresults
My experience is we were ranked the 4th best seo company in the UK a few years ago, about a year just after we launched Hobo, (just above Andrew’s team the week that they sold for £60 million or something like that lol).
Actually this is the exact email I sent to Michael when I was informed we were ranked in 2007.
“Title – 4th best seo company in the uk lol
topseos.com/option,com_rank/task,rankByCountry/country_id,2238/”
(Note the above link is now redirected – there’s no archive on the site but there is a record in the Web Archive). Actually in November 2007 we were 3rd it seems – shows how much attention I was paying.
I’m not sure if I actually submitted my seo company to be ranked or at least included in what looked like a large on-topic directory for seo companies. I honestly can’t remember. Anyway for 3 months we ranked, unpaid. Even appeared in a magazine. Then we disappeared. (UPDATE – No, I just found out it was my MD the amateur – lucky I keep him on accounting detail these days :p !)
I KNOW FOR 100% they hadn’t contacted any of my clients at any time and nothing had changed in that 3 months since we had been ranked so I didn’t think it was anything worth “supporting” or anything much worth promoting – that’s the only word I can remember from the communication I had with them - other than a nice bit of linkbait (if pointless and potentially misleading from where I was standing). (EDIT – i had some sort of telephone communication with them when i (**think**) I enquired about updating my inaccurate profile to see if it improved my ranking (as if!) or encouraged them to contact my current clients – which also did not happen).
So I forgot about them.
Well I would have, if I didn’t see TONS of online press releases out at the start of every month from SEO companies who claim to be the best seo companies in the UK, as voted by a company who themselves herald they have been “identified as an independent authority on vendors“.
It seems a nice merry go around if claims are to be believed. You pay. They award and then you promote the fact you’re a top seo company to customers who are looking for the best seo company. Everybody wins – even the unsuspecting customer if the seo company they get is any good lol :)
Here’s what one company won in the last 3 months:
- #1 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company (Canada), April 2010.
- #1 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company, April 2010.
- #1 – Best Reputation Management Company, April 2010.
- #2 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company (Australia), April 2010.
- #3 – Best Link Building Company, April 2010.
- #4 – Best Social Media Optimization Company, April 2010.
- #5 – Best Pay Per Click Management Company, April 2010.
- #1 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company, March 2010.
- #1 – Best Reputation Management Company, March 2010.
- #1 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company (Canada), March 2010.
- #2 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company (Australia), March 2010.
- #3 – Best Social Media Optimization Company, March 2010.
- #3 – Best Link Building Company, March 2010.
- #5 – Best Pay Per Click Management Company, March 2010.
- #1 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company (Canada), February 2010.
- #1 – Best Reputation Management Company, February 2010.
- #1 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company, February 2010.
- #2 – Best Search Engine Optimization Company (Australia), February 2010.
- #3 – Best Link Building Company, February 2010.
- #3 – Best Social Media Optimization Company, February 2010.
- #5 – Best Pay Per Click Management Company, February 2010.
If carlsberg made seo companies lol – the company above “enjoys a solid reputation in the online marketing services industry” according to themselves in an article, backed up with awards from an organisation who is “identified as an independent authority on vendors” according to THEMselves.
It’s amazing to think a SEO company THAT GOOD would stop to think about looking after your little company…. perhaps they can come out and detail their evaluation process and bring an end to the apparent speculation that it’s not legit.
I think it would be nice if TopSeos stated which SEO companies WERE ACTUALLY EVALUATED FOR RANKING AWARDS each month and listed those that are NOT EVALUATED for the awards – like Hobo – for whatever reasons. My opinion (this whole article is purely opinion) is that’s not going to happen though, is it.
PS
My opinion – I don’t think the seo community needs any body to govern it, if the seo community governs itself. I don’t think these awards are of as much value to customers looking for a seo company as they are to the marketing department of a seo company who is awarded them. I think most awards and badges out there on the net are either fun linkbait, bollocks or plain inaccurate and often misleading. Some are a total scam.
If you are looking for a seo company, I hope you are lucky. It’s a minefield at the best of times. At the moment, we are VERY CAREFUL with the projects we take on to make sure they suit what we are good at and we deliver for our PAYING clients. Chances are, we won’t take you on as a new client if you are thinking of hiring a seo at the moment especially if you have not been referred to us by a current customer – we’ve said NO to the biggest of the biggest international companies because they didn’t fit our small agency.
If you are a small business you might want to check out our free seo guide to get an idea of just what’s involved.
We’ve never asked anybody for work, or sent out a spam email, or paid for leads or used CPC to get leads in 4 years and we won’t ever (we don’t have a sales team) and I bet there are a good few companies out there in the exact same position you won’t ever hear about EXCEPT from folk you know.
We’ve learned over the last 4 years you can’t win all the rankings, you can’t be the best at every aspect of internet marketing and your better sticking to the type of projects the team enjoy and have experience in and so get better at them. Our business model is in total transition at the moment as we move more and more into affiliates and pay-per-performance with long term clients we already have a good relationship with because if you do SEO you know it’s a long term commitment to get good rankings.
What do you think? Do you trust Topseos? Their apparent lack of transparency is really getting the SEO community heated up… is there a reason they are not transparent?
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And we would care about any of this why? Some days I think you’ve got too much time on your hands, Shauny Boy :-) BB
I wouldn’t knock them so much. We’ve never registered with top seos or asked to be included in their “rankings” however we were the fortunate recipient of an enquiry who contacted after seeing our company mentioned. As they say…never look a gift horse in the mouth. On another note…I see you’re promoting raven seo tools which puzzles me – you guys being seos too. Why would you promote something that is very innaccurate, expensive and riddled with bugs? We tested it to the hilt and it is nothing more than a good looking report generator ie all looks and no substance. It doesn’t do anything any better than any if the free tools (or a spreadsheet) and the pricing model is silly money. You went down in my estimations when I saw that advert with your mailer.
HI Sandy As I said, we’renot really looking for clients. Regarding advertisements around the place, yeah I am dipping my toes into some affiliate for the blog. Bill Today was a slow day.
Hey Sandy, how far can I afford to “go down”?
I hate the whole TOPSEOs thing. I dont think you really can have a top SEO. Everyone has different experiences, different ideas, different ways of working and different personalities. One of our clients stopped using a competitor because they were having trouble working with them. The work the competitor had carried out was spot on from what I could see but little opperational issues such as they liked to communicate via email where as we like to call clients more resulted in the client comming to us. You have to find the right SEO for you.
Great post. I was going to write one about them too, I probably will do when I get around to it as it tied in with a recent one I wrote about a blatantly scamming company. How can this service: http://bit.ly/cO3vuU Win awards for “best link building company” http://bit.ly/a8d7ZR And multiple awards too! Absolutely unbelievable. I have since deleted their urls from the post, but even reading the description of them will show that at best its theft of your money, at worst its dangerous for the sites you point them at… **** EDIT by Shaun of Hobo – I removed the company names by shortening the URLS – sorry I don’t want to start slagging off individual companies.
“Hey Sandy, how far can I afford to “go down”?” That’s entirely up to you my good man ;) Seriously though mate – did you actually try this thing out before promoting them? We did and particularly looked at the agency pricing model and were shocked how bad it was – $249 a month (£160) and there’s nothing it does any better than a spreadsheet and some free tools. It’s also still in beta and I think they have a damn cheek asking people to fork out monthly costs on that basis alone. The point is – I enjoy your posts but it doesn’t look very professional when advertising affiliate products that are clearly crap. I would bever advertise anything unless it would benefit users, clients or ourselves and I’d check it out thoroughly before hand.Maybe you have…you’ll know about the crap harvesting, backlinks being displayed in reoports form domains that haven’t been online for over 5 years. Actually, come to think of it, was the whole point of the topseos article to give them exposure like they do on negative marketing articles? They’re probably rubbing their hands at all the publicity they’re receiving. ;) Can I get a cut of your affilliate commisions for adding my comments? Peace!
HI Sandy Yup I tried the software, but that’s the point with most of the affiliates I am promoting… they have a free trial. If you don’t like you don’t pay – folks can make their own minds up and if they like them, I get a commission – I think that’s a win-win and not pushing things too much. For disclosure purposes, the tools I use are my brain, Google, Yahoo link explorer, GA, Hittail and Excell. I am reviewing SEM Rush (review coming soon) and Majestic SEO (both of which I quite like). I’ve never been a fan of most tools, but if they have a free trial, I will probably
promote themtell folks about them. I actually have a lot to learn about affiliates, and promoting 3rd parties on the blog. This will be the year of it. You giving me your real email and name yet lol?Good post Shaun, Perhaps, if something was said loudly enough a few years back then topseos wouldn’t be getting so much heat from so many industry players, now. I think the snake has eaten its tail, by that i mean it ain’t going to stop, anytime soon, when you see some of the bigger search marketing industry names that contribute to topseos there certainly adding to the sites credibility. Topseos is just another marketing tool, an expensive one at that, but it must offer a decent return, perhaps I shouldn’t have thrown away the top seo companies linkbait I used to run — could have been sitting pretty with a few bob under me belt by know – who knew, eh?
Paul your Top SEO Company rankings were fun though. :)
I must admit, i almost fell into the trap when we recieved the email about being ranked in the top 10 for reputation management. Thankfully after sometime, i removed the silly badge they offered. I’m blaming a temporary moment of insanity for the mistake. But the first question anyone should ask as an SEO, is why would you pay exorbitant amount of cash to simply be ranked or to have a badge displayed on your website by a company that actually does not specialise in your company field of expertise? Or that is recognised as an authority? SEO paid linkbait?
Brett it will be interesting how it pans out. :)
I spoke with Jeev from Topseos.com at SMX Sydney today and while he didn’t seek to add fuel to the fire, one of the points he did highlight is that our industry does a wonderful job or burning and punishing each other. We fight against accreditation or certification but then work to point out how someone can’t claim they can claim certified based on what could be reasonable certification measurements.
@David hello :) Topseos don’t have a mandate to claim what do in my opinion. No industry body has ever helped me. I think the idea of seo certification or a governing body is ludicrous and probably self serving. I don’t think these awards for best in business can possibly be accurate either – opinion obivously. I don’t see no industry body questioning TopSEOS claims… isn’t this the thing one of them should be doing by now? Perhaps Top SEOs will show us all how they rank SEO companies and this will all go away?
But you need to pay to be ranked the best? These two things don’t hang together for me…..
There is very few tools I would recommend using, and the best are completely free. Aaron Walls free stuff is awesome, I use the seo toolbar and seo4firefox on a daily basis. Its amazing when you see tools getting sold for hundreds and they have about 5% of the functionality of Aarons free stuff. The only ones I would pay for are Advanced Web Ranking and Advanced Link Manager. Outside of that its Open Office for their free spreadsheets and thats about it. On the topseos thing, I can see why companies are listing the logo – clients who dont have a clue what they are doing see it and it is social proof of value. Doesn’t make it any less slimy to those of us who can see what is going on though.
Yeah I have affiliate links for Aarons great seo tools and advanced web ranking tools too – I like both of those :) I should have mentioned Aaron’s tools above….
“You giving me your real email and name yet lol?” I’ll think about it. Reason – I don’t want the fame whore status that goes with seo discussions anymore. Nothing against anyone making a name for themselves – I let my client work do the talking. That and I don’t have the time to pat all these wet behind the ears know all “seos” who have only worked in the industry for 12 months. If I let you know who I was it would a) spoil the surprise b) you might see me as a competitor and nofollow my ass the other thing and I hope you take this the right way. I’ve been watching your blog evolve for a couple of years now and you do have a habit of naming companies in a knee jerk fashion which makes me very wary. You later retract these names/urls but As someone who works on brand reputation and protection I can only pass on this advice. When you name a company/URL like you did today it is far too late to retract it. The URL you published came up in an excerpt in my google alert on your blog posts. That’s a date stamped record which can be used in evidence and there’s a number of precedents been set resulting in case law. Theres two famous cases in Scotland concerning libel due to discussions which are now case law. It’s a very dangerous path you tread when you do these things and it’s rarely will opinion count if the named company incurs any negative publicity or losses. You do come across as Passionate and I like that a lot. Just be careful who’s watching and paying attention. Fame brings it’s rewards but notoriety could be your downfall.
@starstruck the prize for the dumbest “seo” of the month must surely go to yourselves. just visited your post from Shaun’s link and don’t you think you’re a bit of a hypocrite to call yourself an “ethical seo” and brand other company’s as spammers when you’ve openly posted to the whole world that you’re buying links??? Gee whizz
Sandy I hear you – and Im always surprised when folk say they have monitored the blog for any period of time – sometimes it feels as if there’s no-one out there lol. I actually post less than I have ever done these days and I think that will continue – the seo fame game doesn’t interest me as much as it does when your starting out. It’s pointless and frivolous – why I don’t speak at conferences either these days. I think my time is better spent learning more about affiliate marketing at the moment. I don’t go out of my to cause anybody any problems and I know how to keep private information private. I’ve actually removed posts from this blog as I thought they were inappropriate. One or two people have asked me to remove the odd post too and I have – after they tried to get money out of my clients that was unnecessary – only to find out in forums that the company I discussed still causing folk grief. PS – I don’t nofollow anybody’s links if the discussion is intelligent – and I’m not scared of competitors at all or I wouldn’t blog at all. I have a lot of friends who could be seen as competitors, but I’ve never really looked at it that way.
“I hear you – and Im always surprised when folk say they have monitored the blog for any period of time – sometimes it feels as if there’s no-one out there lol.” hi Shaun, I guess you can call me “no one” because I do check your blog regularly… and I’m still waiting on that “anatomy” post, if I remember right. :) I think this post is more around-the-water-cooler “inside seo” stuff (I’m not in the industry – I’m just a DIY guy). If I was looking for the “best seo company” I think I would just google “best seo company”. Or am I missing something? Steve, aka “no one” :-)
“@starstruck the prize for the dumbest “seo” of the month must surely go to yourselves. just visited your post from Shaun’s link and don’t you think you’re a bit of a hypocrite to call yourself an “ethical seo” and brand other company’s as spammers when you’ve openly posted to the whole world that you’re buying links???” Thanks. Consider that post a public service to warn everyone off of it. The simple fact is there is not a single seo company who doesn’t buy links for their clients. (Before I go any further I should probably make it clear that I own that site, and I blog on it. I don’t take on any client work from it any more, and the I do not even see any of the leads from it). Buying links as an integral part of seo, there is no avoiding that these days. The way that company is doing it is disgraceful – calling themselves ethical seos then giving you a bunch of dangerous links on dropped domains, then to make matters worse they refuse to remove them when you ask. I have dozens of sites purely for testing things on, so I can test the riskier things, at no point where any of those links pointing at any client sites…
I’ve been discussing TopSEOs quite a bit of late on Twitter. And in fact, this is something j have been quite vocal about in the last year or so. I know that my companies marketing department did speak to some folks there to ask what we could to improve our rankings there – like hobo, with no effort, and no contact to our clients, we were in the past ranked in the top 10 SEO companies in the uk. I think that this is a hook to get people interested. We are now ranked around position 25 – so they try to hook you in by ranking you highly only for you to fall down – and wonder what has changed, why you’ve fallen, what you need to do to get up their rankings again. Well, the long and short answer is that you do pay for those positions. During our investigations, we were told that the highest ‘available’ position in their rankings was 8th – and 8th certainly wouldn’t be cheap. Our marketing lady wasn’t all that keen on 8th, so asked when other positions might become available to be advised that these were paid up for years in advance. So, lead gen tool topSEOs may be, but independent authority on rating of these various niches within our industry they do not. Btw… Starstruck – I have never bought a link or advised on doing for one of my clients – some have gone on ahead and done it anyway, but I think that the assertion that every SEO company buys links I’d false.
“The simple fact is there is not a single seo company who doesn’t buy links for their clients.” Really? We don’t never have and never will. I’ve also worked for other agencies that don’t, won’t and never will. Lots of companies don’t and haven’t. The simple fact is that you should do your research and get the facts before spouting “facts”. For those that “do” – they have the common sense and savvy NOT to blast it on a blog post OR link to it from a highly popular blog such as this one. The likes of celebrity SEOs, quality SEOs, respected guys and even Matt Cutts read this blog. If you can’t see how stupid your post is then it will be no surprise when your competitors report you to Google for buying links – which in case you din’t know is against their TOS. How would you explain a ban to your clients. I’ll have to take your word for it that you don’t link to client sites. The award still stands! Shaun – “sometimes it feels as if there’s no-one out there lol.” Naw – we’re out there. Sometimes we just don’t feel the need to post. More interesting just to sit back sometimes. :) Enjoy the weekend.
I don’t buy or sell links. Never have. Bought a review in the yahoo directory….and paid for access to varoius article submission networks so I dont need to spam blogs or forums….that’s about it.
Okay Sandy let me rephrase that. 90% of successful SEO agencies buy links. I agree there are a very small minority that don’t. There is zero chance of competing in “mobile phones”, “insurance”, “credit cards” or any other competitive serp, without buying links – you know that and I know that. If a client wants to buy links then they need to do it without being exposed to unneeded risks, which was the purpose of that blog post – it showed what that scamming company were doing. If you have never bought a link, and never will, I would say you either work in house for a company who doesn’t need to because they have a huge authority site already, or you have never ranked for anything competitive… How is anyone possibly going to report me? You know who my clients are? Didn’t think so. Shaun – would you not say article submission networks are buying links? They only exist for search spiders, not humans.
@starstruck “Okay Sandy let me rephrase that. 90% of successful SEO agencies buy links” Eh??? Where did you pull that figure from? 100% of the companies I’ve worked for are successful SEOs. You haven’t got a clue have you what the real figure is and you’re simply pulling these figures from thin air aren’t you? If you can prove it then please show us the data for your 90% figure. “There is zero chance of competing in “mobile phones”, “insurance”, “credit cards” or any other competitive serp, without buying links – you know that and I know that.” Absolute nonsense. I work in two of those niches and not one single time have any links been bought. I know that for a fact. Have you actually worked for any of the companies competing at the top of these markets? If you have then you’ll know what’s involved but I seriously doubt that you do. Do you think apple buy links for their iPhone launches? Don’t be ridiculous. These companies use virals, PPC, articles, press releases, product reviews, google MC – you name it. They also have brand behind them and a competitive edge. Leaking a product prototype or an interest rate for example will draw more natural links that you can shake a stick at. These companies don’t need to buy links and if you think such companies would risk losing their market share then you obviously have no idea what could be lost if they were caught buying links. They spend millions on their SEO – not a few thousand pounds a year. Reading into what you say here, you clearly don’t come across as someone who has worked in a global environment, with global clients or took part in an SEO diligence audit by a corporate company. If you have then you would know that these are the sort of questions you have to pass before getting through to a stage two part of a tender. All the successful SEOs I know of have been through these process. 100% transparency is essential when dealing with Global clients. Every proposal I have ever seen, been involved in over the past 4 – 5 years has specifically asked about buying links. To which you have to prove, open up your books, scrutineering etc – you name they cover it. Only the successful companies get through to latter stages and none of them would get through if they were purchasing links. Fact! All of them successful SEOs – fact! How would anyone possibly report you? You say it in black and white in your blog post don’t you? What better evidence does Google’s manual review team need to start investigating your link profile? Oh well best of luck to you. ;-)
Sure, Apple don’t buy links – but they come under “having a massive authority site” already. I’m not going to start outing individual sites, but go look in any of those serps I mentioned. Look at the backlinks of all the top 10 sites who are not household names. How many of them have blatantly paid backlinks? I’m guessing 80%+ I have worked for one of the largest link selling organisations before, I can say with absolute confidence that most of the big agencies are buying links. I have watched what you would call major seo agencies buying links for ftse listed companies like they were going out of fashion. Anyone saying anything other than that is going in, is burying their head in the sane. ““There is zero chance of competing in “mobile phones”, “insurance”, “credit cards” or any other competitive serp, without buying links – you know that and I know that.” Absolute nonsense. I work in two of those niches and not one single time have any links been bought. I know that for a fact.” You might know for a fact you didn’t buy links, but you can’t say that about anyone else in those serps. Again without pointing to specific url’s, if you go search for one of those things, you are not going to be able to show me a top 10 ranking site that isn’t a major brand already, that doesn’t actively buy links. “How would anyone possibly report you? You say it in black and white in your blog post don’t you? What better evidence does Google’s manual review team need to start investigating your link profile?” So one or two of my clients has evaluated the risks and might have started buying links. I don’t link to my clients, and they don’t link to me. So there is no one to investigate, and nobody to punish…. I think the post I made was pretty clear – I tested their service, then had them remove the links. So there isn’t any paid links from them pointing at any site I have control over, therefore there is nothing to penalise. I approved your comment on my own blog too, but rather than drag it out and force me to reply to the same thing in two places, I’d appreciate it if you either reply here or there, not both :) thanks
I think this is getting a bit off topic lol
It is a little, but its all good. That post I made on my own blog was pushing it as far as I was willing to go. I’m looking forward to being free of that site (I’m in the process of selling it). I’ll set up my own blog which will purely be a personal one, not linked to anything commercial. Then I’ll really be free to write about some topics that I couldn’t touch before.
“I’m guessing 80%+” Everything else you’ve said so far has been a guess so no surprise there. “I have worked for one of the largest link selling organisations before” This gets better – so you worked for a spammer then. You then go and buy links from another spammer? If you worked with one of these agencies then you would also know where to source links without having to buy from another spammer. (That hole you dug is just getting deeper) “I have watched what you would call major seo agencies buying links for ftse listed companies like they were going out of fashion.” Oh really? This gets even better. So now Google’s team can check the all the ftse index and go through all their link profiles, watch what they’re up, watch them like a hawk etc. Google would love a scalp like this. So if you know these SEOs then why haven’t you reported them? You could use it to your advantage. Better still out all these “major SEOs” so we can all report them and make life easier/fairer for everyone else. If they’ve got an unfair advantage then they deserve to be banned. They’re spamming – end of. “you are not going to be able to show me a top 10 ranking site that isn’t a major brand already,that doesn’talready buy links” FTSE companies are major brands are they not? Now you’re saying they’re not buying links? What is it to be? I’ll be honest with you – I do not believe anything you’ve said and from what you do say you haven’t worked at these levels and it looks like you are making things up without any evidence whatsoever. FTSE companies in these niches could lose millions per day if they were caught buying links and banned. Shareholders would go crazy and it would be world news. The seo companies would be sued and put out of business. The due diligence alone for trusting any SEO at this level takes months to evaluate, process and protect. Have you ever seen a contract written by a team of dozens of FTSE company lawyers on SEO? These things are watertight and whiter than white – so again you’re just guessing and really do not have any evidence to back up at all. Everything you’ve said has so far been full of holes and there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that you have no experience at such levels. I’m not posting on your blog – not even read it. Much prefer this blog and Shaun has been good enough to let this go off topic (apologies Shaun – I’m guilty for fueling the fire here) You can have the last word if you want @startsruck – you just are not credible in anything you say. If you have facts to back it up then by all means show us and we can all benefit – otherwise nothing you say is believeable.
I just posted about selling links if you want to continue in a clean thread lol – http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/how-not-to-sell-links-on-your-newspaper-sites/